Yesterday was Advent, the beginning of the Christian liturgical year. If you are like me, this is a good thing and a good opportunity to renew your practice and set a pace for your practice.
Specifically the season of advent is about preparing a place for the Lord, which internally speaks of Kenosis, the process of self-emptying so that you can be filled with the Logos.
My favorite prayer to use before meditation for setting up Kenosis is the prayer of St Joseph the Visionary:
PRAYER OF ST JOSEPH THE VISIONARY
Cleanse my hidden mind with the hyssop of your grace
For I draw near to the holy of holies of your mysteries
Wash me from all my understanding of the flesh
and may an understanding of the spirit be mingled with my soul
Cause to reside in me a faith that percieves your mysteries,
so that I may percieve you as you are, and not as I am.
Create in me eyes that I may see with your eyes,
what I cannot see with my own
My every bodily image be wiped from my minds eye
and may you alone be recognised before the eye of the mind.
Amen.
As each year goes by I am more and more a Christian in thinking, devotion, meditation, and even the magic that I do. I am less and less anything else. This autumn in particular has led me to a much deeper understanding of the Holy Mystery of Christianity and its implications for magic and mysticism. Hint: you need to understand the figure of Melchizedek and the particulars of the Jewish scapegoat ritual to really get what the crucifixion was about.
Eventually I will be starting a new blog to explore my own Christian Mystical experiences, Contemplative Prayer, Emerging Church, and the occasional diatribe against the herp-de-derp Christianity that, while still a minority in numbers, seems loudest by volume.
I will of course keep up Strategic Sorcery (it is my career after all) but until I come up with a clever name for such a blog you will just have to suffer through the odd Christian related post here. In the meantime, I did have a message to ALL my readers about the Seasons Greetings, or actually the greetings that we use during this season.
My message to all is: Fucking Get Over Yourselves!
Specifically I will break my message up into two camps:
TO CHRISTIANS: There is no “War on Christmas”. It may be the case that your town or state had been very forceful with Christmas messages in public areas and now are forced not to be. Get over it. You still have a church on every goddamned corner, and most houses sporting gaudy lights proclaiming the birth of Christ. All shopping centers have been decorated swathed in pine and ribbon since Halloween and your living room probably looks like Currier and Ives have been crashing on your sofa. In other words: you have more than enough Christmas to go around.
If, god forbid, someone wishes you Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas please for fucks sake exercise some actual Christian behavior and accept it with grace. They are wishing you well and exercising respect by not assuming that you are Christian . You and I both know that by January 6th, if not Dec 25th, you will be so sick of Christmas that will feel like punching an elf repeatedly in the nose.
BTW, the SONG Happy Holidays goes back to 1942 and if the phrase is good enough for Bing Crosby, its good enough for you!
TO NON-CHRISTIANS: 93% of Americans Celebrate Christmas. That means that like it or not, it is going to leak into the culture (see above). It also means that unless you are well known as a Jew or Pagan or Hindu or Muslim chances are someone, somewhere will wish you a Merry Christmas. To rail against this as if it is religious persecution is just the height if silliness.
The funniest thing is that when Pagans travel to countries where religion plays an even larger role in public life than it does here, its always viewed as an exciting opportunity for cultural awareness. Yet here, it is just expected that not just government, but all life, will be secular or that all religions will be given equal weight.
Upset that there is not a menorah next to the Christmas Tree at the bank? Get over it. Jews make up 2.1% of America. Even in New York, which has the highest percentage, it is 8.3%. Pagans, make up such a small number that I can’t even find statistics. Basically, its a minority religion, why would you EXPECT it to be presented in equal volume in the culture? If someone forces you to actually celebrate Christmas, that is a whole other deal. But just being exposed to it? Deal with it – we are the 93%.
As is – you should be about as upset about people mistakenly wishing you a Merry Christmas in America as you would be about someone wishing you a Happy Dewali in India. When I identified as Pagan my response was simply “Just to let you know, I am a Pagan and don’t celebrate Christmas, but thank you, and a very Merry Christmas to you.” By all means if they inquire further take the opportunity to talk a bit about your religion, and as long as they remain respectful you may have a good conversation on your hands. You may even make someone aware of a spiritual path that they never considered, thus being a Pagan evangelist.
So please, everyone just exercise a little decorum, a little politeness, and a little grace. Maybe, just maybe we can together create a little peace on earth and goodwill towards man.
Any book names for the Jewish Scapegoat ritual and Melchizedek? I’m interested in studying.
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Jason, are you familiar with Anglican solitary and writer Maggie Ross? Her books and blog might be of interest to you. Her blog is http://ravenwilderness.blogspot.com/. (I hope this doesn’t get treated as spam because of the link!)
She is amazing! I am in love!
I am happy to have made the connection between you. Wishing you a peaceful Advent and a merry Christmas!
What about your Buddhism?
I don’t see it as “worldly god” therefore find no issue with my vows. I think at the point that we are discussing emptiness being empty of everything BUT Buddha qualities, you are drifting dangerously close to God territory anyway. Certainly texts like the Kungyed Gyalpo you need to go out of your way to interpret non-thiestically.
As for practice, my main samaya can be kept with a very short practice every day, and I have lost the line between where Dzogchen and Christian Contemplative prayer differ.
In short, truth is a pathless land.
This post actually got me really excited! I seem to be heading this way myself (developing more of a Christ-centered path, that is) and would love to read your thoughts! I also find your straightforward comments to both Christians and non-Christians refreshing. People just take things too seriously. Sometimes, it seems like every pagan who gets a dirty look starts screaming about “persecution” and every Christian who is asked to please not impose his/her faith on others starts ranting about the death of civilization!
“In short, truth is a pathless land” is wonderful. When pressed (& backed into a corner) I let questioners know that, after 15 odd years, I gave up Christianity for Lent. Looking forward to reading you blog-to-be!
jonquil, you fast during Lent but gave up Christianity?
What is one to make of a Christian “sorcerer”? Surely I don’t need to recite the litany of biblical admonitions against sorcery? I must admit I’m feeling a bit nauseated knowing that I put money in the pocket of a Christian white light disciple posing as a sorcerer…
Sean the Sorcerer, I hope you’re joking man.
If not, you’re display of ignorance is absolutely amazing. “White light disciple?” Seriously? And what is this business about “biblical admonitions?” I don’t see anything in this post that says Jason is an evangelical, or Catholic, or any denomination of Christianity that uses the Bible as be-all and end-all of it’s writing. What if he practices a Gnostic Christianity? What if he has a direct relationship with Yeshua, and uses his bloody brain and his own mystical experience of the Christian mysteries to decide what writings are key to Christian understanding and what are not? Just so you know, there are numerous holy texts in the Christian religion, and any number of ways to understand them in practice. The Mass itself is rife with sorcery–transubstantiation, ritual sacrifice, Invocation of the divine Sophia, ritual incantation and group Gnosis…I mean, come on. I wonder if you have any actual experience of the Christian mysteries; I suspect that you’re aping simple-minded misconceptions about Christianity held by many Pagans.
Yeshua worked miracles regularly; if Jason does the same, he is simply following in the great man’s footsteps.
Sorry dude but I don’t walk in the light of your sun or consider “Yeshua” a great man, a savior or a god. Here in the Shadow of the Black Sun, we who see the world without white light delusions tend to have a clearer view of things, and what I see is someone named Jason Miller who is a spiritually confused fellow, who once walked in the Shadow but has turned to the Light, though he still makes a living from the Shadow world, hence his confusion…
Oh, goodness. “The Shadow World”, eh? Right. You don’t walk in the light of my sun? I see. You’re super dark, and special. I bet you can’t stand in the light of the sun….I bet you’re kind sparkle so brightly in the sunlight, that mortals can’t resist your beauty.
“The Shadow World”. Good heavens.
Oh…Oh my. I had a look at your website, Sorcerer Sean. I….Wow. Absolutely delightful. Gentlefolk of the blogosphere, please take a gander at:
http://www.orderoftheblacksun.com
It appears we have an occult luminary in our midst! Quoted from his website:
“O.B.S. is led by Sean the Sorcerer, a mysterious and terrifying figure whose dark prophecies, vast occult knowledge and fearsome mental powers have earned him the appellations Doctor of Doom, Emperor of Dreams and Sorcerer Supreme.”
If I’d known I was talking to a dread Sorcerer of your stature, I might’ve wore my Sunday finery to the discussion.
I can not speak for Inominandum, however, being a Christian does not require that you follow every idea pushed forward by Christianity, or that you be close minded to other ideas and views. I am a Christian, however, i study Jewish practices and faiths, as well as Kabbalah to better understand the well from which Christianity sprang. I study Islam and the Koran to see how Judaism and Jesus were viewed by other people as well as their wonderful well of philosophy and theosophy, namely Sufism from both Persian and Arabic sources. This of course leads one into learning about Babylonian/Sumerian spiritual practices and how they influenced and were influenced by Zoroastrianism, which was influenced by the much older Hindu paths. Throw into this the works of various Gnostics and you have a Christianity that is open and loving and filled with the lights of each path out there.
I find it rather close minded to simply stop listening because one declares themselves a Christian. Now if he said he had joined an evangelical church and wanted to help each of us be born again and to please meet him at the next tea party rally so we can save our souls and our country at the same time… then yes… id be worried :p
Hi Sean. You are so unbelievably wrong in so many ways I hardly know where to start…
Lets start with history: you ask what to make of a Christian Sorcerer. Ummmm how about John Dee’s Enochian Magic? Agrippas Occult Philosophy? The Key of Solomon? The Goetia? The Black Dragon? Pretty much every classical grimoire? Howabout Cunning Men? Howabout actual Italian Strega (almost all Catholic). Lets go more modern… Franz Bardon? Denning and Phillips? Frater RO?
The message that I have been trying to convey to you since our first exchange is that there are three approaches to magic:
1. Being white light and “dayside”
2. Being darkness and SPOOKY
and..
3. Being a grown up.
I never “walked in shadow”, nor do I now, “walk in light”. I am sorry that you feel suckered somehow, but this is not exactly news. I have been writing about Christianity on this blog for a LONG time, I mentioned in TSS that I am mainly influenced by Buddhism and Christianity.
You seem to have some twisted idea of what Christianity is, and I can’t fault you for that. The loudest voices in Christendom are fundamentalists at the moment. They are not the majority, nor are they the correct view.
That said, I also do not think that “being Christian” in the sense of being part of the club is important or even helpful for everyone. That is why my course and teachings on magic are generally non-religious, I push what works. In the sense that people should be more loving compassionate, practice radical forgiveness, and seek after the ultimate truth? Yes I am all about pushing that. That is the essence of Christianity and it need not be called by that name to be that thing.
The above sorts of discussions remind me about how important balance is, to not lean so heavily to one side (light vs dark, good vs bad, male vs female, yin vs yang, etc)… The energy of Mercury in Libra comes to mind.
I’ve had a sense that your faith life was moving in this direction for a while now. Honestly, days when I’m not focussed on evolving into a quasi-extraterrestrial (Heh), I feel much more connected to the Christian saints/deities/whatever like St. Cyprian or Mary then I do to most Buddhist or pagan figures. I’m also starting to relate a bit to Jesus in his face as the Good Shepherd.
A very Merry Christmas to you and Tiffany, btw.
I’m always curious to see others views on such a widely varied faith as Christianity. I hold no personal appeal to it, but I fault nothing with the principles of your faith you put forth. Every one of them a noble goal.
Haters are gonna hate, Jason. When they come trolling, just refuse to dance. For the record, I find my peace and guidance in Isis. I suspect many of her mysteries are blended within the Christian mysteries.
Jason, I am sorry if this message became unbearably long.
What to make of a Christian sorcerer, Sean? You can hardly be surprised of the existence of such a person, since history is full of them (unless you use the word “sorcerer” in a narrower sense known to yourself but not your readers): King Alphonso X of Castile, Arnoldus de Villanova, the authors of Ars Notoria, Almadel, Liber Iuratus, Armadel and Enchiridion, Brother John of Morigny, Father Marsilio Ficino, Abbot John Trithemius of Sponheim and Wurzburg, Thomas Rudd, John Kelpius, Conrad Beissel, Gustaf Ulfvenclou, Ebenezer Sibly, Francis Barrett, Abbé Julio, Papus and a large number of persons connected to the Gnostic communion of churches, and countless practitioners of pow-wow, hoodoo, benedicaria and curanderismo. Depending on the definition of the word “sorcerer”, theurgically inclined persons, such as Joachim Martinez de Pasqually, Arthur Waite, Evelyn Underhill, Charles Williams and Gareth Knight have to be included in the list. Further, I can remind myself of at least four Anglican priests: Thomas Vaughan, William Alexander Ayton, J.C. Fitzgerald and Anthony Duncan.
The place alleged mitzvoth from the Hebrew Bible in the practical life of Christians of Gentile descent varies a lot between different Christian denominations. Gentile converts to Messianic Judaism, certain Adventists (but far from all of them), and other minor groups on the fringe, seem to be the only ones who believe that Gentile Christians are obliged to follow all mitzvoth of the Sinaitic Covenant.
Other Christians seem to be clear that the Pauline view expressed in Galatians and other letters, make pork dishes, boiled lobster, yorkshire pudding and car-driving on Saturdays permitted. The Synod held in Jerusalem AD 49, described in a somewhat rosy-tinged retrospect in Acts 13, severely limited the number of mitzvoth expected from Gentiles, and made it clear that male Gentiles are not expected to be circumcised.
Compare this with the Orthodox Jewish view, that male Gentiles are forbidden to be circumcised by religious reasons (medical reasons is another cup of tea, entirely), unless they wish to convert to Judaism.
Non-denominational revivalist Conservative Evangelicals of the sort so common on your side of the pond, but less so in Europe since we exported most of them to the North American colonies several centuries ago, seem to pick and choose by random which Sinaitic mitzvoth they wish to follow or not.
Among other Christians such a method is frowned upon. Lutherans and Episcopalians make a sharp distinction between ceremonial mitzvoth and ethical mitzvoth. The first group is not seen as belonging to the obligations of a Gentile Christian, the second is.
Episcopalians, Roman Catholics and some Methodists traditionally stress the use of reason and conscience in making an ethically defensible decision. The place of the Bible in that situation is not as a source of any formerly unknown ethical knowledge, but just as a reminder or awakening illumination of something already knowledgeable by your own reason and conscience. Then, of course, there are a lot of ethical questions never mentioned in the Bible, because the questions didn’t exist in the Bronze Age or Iron Age Levant. Nor does the Bible contain any systematical treatment on the application of any mitzvah: Is the commandment against murder applicable or non-applicable in a situation of war, for instance? Traditional Mennonites and Quakers would defend a pacifist interpretation; Roman Catholics would make a sharp distinction between forbidden attacks and permitted defense; Lutherans before WW2 would say that you have to obey the politicians, but many of them got second thoughts about that since 1945, especially Lutherans in Germany; for the Christian Right this is not a problem.
For Gnostic Christians (and a lot of Quakers and Weigelians) the Inner Light is the only guidance in ethical matters, whatever is written in the dead letter of the Bible. This thought is not unbiblical: “For the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”
What, then, does these differences between Christian denominations have to do with the issue on Christian sorcerers? Your “litany of admonitions” must be a problem for a Conservative Evangelical, especially of the post-denominational revivalist sort, since it is popular in that movement to oblige themselves to some (but not all) of the mitzvoth both other Christians and Orthodox Jews doesn’t regard as binding for Gentiles. Among these you most often find the interpretation that Kesheph is exactly the same thing that contemporary sorcerers, magicians, occultist or whatever you call them, practice. A Liberal Evangelical could of course dispute this interpretation of Kesheph, but let us leave the Hebrew Bible there.
The Gnostics, Quakers and Weigelians may say that their Inner Light permit them to be sorcerers, so for them it isn’t an issue at all.
The rest of the Christians stand in a middle position. The Hebrew Bible is not relevant for the issue, but the Inner Light is not the only source of knowledge in ethical matters. The Roman Catholics have to nurture their reason, listen to their own conscience and their Church’s official interpretation of Bible and Tradition. The Catechism of the Catholic Church §2117 says:
“All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others – even if this were for the sake of restoring their health – are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.”
It could seem that it is not easy for a Roman Catholic sorcerers to defend their combined identity, but of course they may argue that their practice isn’t about “having a supernatural power over others” nor “invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity”. If the latter is the case, the official condemnation of the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t pertain to the actual practices of these Roman Catholic sorcerers, but to other practices, real or imagined. A Roman Catholic sorcerer may also quote CCC§1782:
“Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters.”
Then we come to the Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Eastern Orthodox’, members of Utrecht Union and members of Independent churches with episcopal constitution (one of the last of these, with Gallican rite, is one of the parallel homes of Jason, according to his TSS p. 223). All of them are much more decentralised than the Roman Catholic Church, and major parts of them (the Evangelical fringe excepted) allow their members a very large amount of personal freedom of conscience. The New Testament is important in all of these churches, so I suppose sorcerers belonging to any of these have to find out what the forbidden “pharmakeia” in Gal. 5.20; Rev. 9:21 and 18.23 does mean. As far as a Christian sorcerer rationally can establish for him/herself that his/her sorcery doesn’t have the characteristics of “pharmakeia”, (s)he doesn’t go against the church of their choice.
Of course, you may now ask: “But what about the forbidden “perierga” in Acts 19.19?” That’s a good question. The magical books burned by their owners at conversion to Christianity wouldn’t have been burned if the practice of their content had been regarded as compatible to the practice of Christianity. Probably the content was intimately intertwined with pre-Christian polytheism, and the early Church was eager to prevent any possibility of worship (“latreia”) of something besides God. Thinking about it, the Church soon made a distinction between the “latreia”, worship exclusively directed to God, and the “douleia”, devotion to an angel or saint, and encouraged both practices, since they are not the same thing, and not to be confused. The late medieval and renaissance grimoires are to a certain extent about “douleia” to angels. Hoodoo and benedicaria are to a great extent about “douleia” to saints. The good Catholic Agrippa even found a place for the pre-Christian Greek deities in an Esoteric Christian cosmology, by viewing them as ways the platonic World Soul manifest in macrocosmos, and mirrored in the microcosmos of the human soul. Experimenting with your own microcosm, for instance in GD-style invocation or Picatrix incantations, is not the same activity as “latreia”.
This to make of a Christian sorcerer!
Ouch. I spotted some spots of bad spelling and grammar. English is not my native language, so I beg forgiveness of a poor European. And it shall of course be “Acts 15″, not “Acts 13″.
Wow, that was fascinating! Thanks.
Thank you for your kind words. I hope it was readable for native English-speakers (I afterwards recognized one sentence in which I should have used the syntactic construction “neither/nor” instead of the bad construction “both/not”). I’m afraid it became a little bit long, despite the fact that I didn’t go into the relevant topic of what “Natural Law” and “Natural Rights” mean among Roman Catholics (St. Thomas), Episcopalians, Arminians (that famous man Hugo Grotius), and some Lutherans (and even Agnostics!). “Litanies of biblical admonitions” does not necessarily play the leading part in Christian ethics, especially not in the communions with a rich intellectual heritage (After all, it was the medieval Church that invented the University and its liberties!).
On the other hand, I could have made my message shorter in this statement: Two billion people are not a Borg cube – one have to qualify which denominational communion, or wing thereof, one is speaking about, since it is impossible to generalize about Christianity and Christians. How many similarities can we find between Westboro Baptist Church (Yes! They are infamous in Europe too!) and the Metropolitan Community Church – especially LBGT-issues? Or between, lets say, Quakers and Russian Orthodox Christians – especially worship style? Or conservative Presbyterians and Universalists? The same is true about the subject of Christian Sorcerers (or magicians or theurgists or…) in different communions or milieus within one or another.
“Deal with it – we are the 93%.”
Basically this “we are everyone” is the fundamental attitude of Christianity and why I find it intolerable. All that Christian “our god is love” comes down to this same attitude. That is why when someone wishes me Merry Christmas, I respond Happy Hannukah.
Ummmmm No Harold. It is not at all a fundamentalist attitude of Christianity. It is the simple fact that 93% of America celebrates Christmas. Its not a “So you should too” thing. Its not a “So get out of our way thing”. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with wanting other people to be Christian or not*. It comes down to understanding that while we must make room for the minority religions (or lack thereof) in our culture, that does not mean that majority religious holiday will somehow fade backward culturally.
My message here about holiday blessings is that you have no control over what people say to you, you have control over how you react to it. The point was just to not get bent out of shape if someone wishes you a Merry Christmas because of an honest mistake.
The Deal with it comment is simply a statement of fact. If I traveled to Israel I would want to see a lot of Christian sites. I would not expect the prevailing culture to be Christian however, because it is a minority religion there.
If I know you are Jewish, OF COURSE I will wish you a Happy Hannukah or Happy Holidays. And I do incidentally….
I think you maybe should go back and read the part of my post aimed at Christians as well and maybe re-think what you are saying.
In the example you gave, what I am suggesting is that if someone wishes you a Merry Christmas because they honestly have no clue that you are Jewish, just politely correct them but realize that they were just wishing you will. By taking the opportunity to find it “intolerable” and than escalating by deliberately wishing someone the wrong holiday out of spite than you are just kind of being an overly dramatic dick.
If someone knows you are Jewish already, or if you are in Orthodox dress, and someone wishes you a Merry Christmas however you should feel free to kick them in the nutz.
* For the record I do not actively seek for other people to become Christians. The point of evangelizing is not to get people from one club to another, but to actually practice what Christ taught – which just as often embodied by people outside of Christendom as in it.
I didn’t say “fundamentalist.” I said “fundamental.” The kind of triumphalism that is embodied in “We’re 93%–deal with it” is fundamental to Christianity in my experience. These is a secular society, not a theocracy, so no, Christians don’t get to tell non-Christians to “deal with it.”
I wonder if you would have the same response to someone black who was carping about the behavior of someone white. After all, blacks are only 13% of the population of the US. Non-blacks are 87%–if blacks don’t like the dominance of non-black culture, if they don’t like seeing nothing but white faces in cultural products, they can just DEAL WITH IT. How does it sound then? Obnoxious, that’s how it sounds, because that’s what it is. Or subsitute straight and gay.
I have indeed had the experience–repeatedly–of being wished a “Merry Christmas” by people who knew damned well that I was Jewish, mostly as their part of the kook “War on Christmas” thing. Sheesh.
I do choose how to react to someone wishing me Merry Christmas. I choose to wish them a Happy Hannukah, even though personally I don’t give a damn about Hannukah, a very minor holiday. I just want to let them know that their perspective is not the world’s. The thing is that you don’t get to make the decision of how I should react to your behavior. You don’t get to decide that it’s not really important or that it shouldn’t bother people who are not Christian or who are atheists or just plain don’t give a damn about the birthday of someone else’s god. You don’t get to say “deal with it,” because you don’t have to deal with it yourself. This is not a theocracy. It is a secular society.
If you are in the majority, don’t be an asshole about it. It is just that simple.
Harold,
We are almost in total agreement, and if you had actually read my post you would know that.
The comment about “we are the 93% deal with it” was specifically regarding the statements about respresentation in CULTURE per volume. It is not a message to suck it up because we are in control. It is a message to excercise a little grace about the culture you are in. When I visited in Karachi I did not get pissed off about hearing the call to prayer in the morning. When I lived in Nepal I didnt… well actually almost everyone there who is white typically gets wished a Merry Christmas. But you get the idea.
Lets take your points one by one:
You write:
“I wonder if you would have the same response to someone black who was carping about the behavior of someone white… if blacks don’t like the dominance of non-black culture, if they don’t like seeing nothing but white faces in cultural products, they can just DEAL WITH IT.”
This is not at all the same as what I am talking about. I am not talking about eradicating the traces of other religions. I am talking about the demand that people who might be statistically thought to celebrate Christmas not get enraged over someone wishing them a Merry Christmas. If someone who is black is demanding that all races be represented in equal numbers in all cultural representations than maybe we are a bit closer to what I am talking about, and yes, that would be stupid. Simply by numbers it would not naturally be so.
Your next point is: “I have indeed had the experience–repeatedly–of being wished a “Merry Christmas” by people who knew damned well that I was Jewish, mostly as their part of the kook “War on Christmas” thing. Sheesh.”
Which, in my post I came out CLEARLY AGAINST. Yet, perhaps because it suits your inner narrative to have all Christians think the same things, you have chosen to ignore all that and twist one line of my post into something you could have a hissyfit about.
You next point is:
“You don’t get to decide that it’s not really important or that it shouldn’t bother people who are not Christian or who are atheists or just plain don’t give a damn about the birthday of someone else’s god. You don’t get to say “deal with it,” because you don’t have to deal with it yourself.”
Actually when we get down to that level of it, we all “get to” write whatever we want. I am expressing what I think would be good behavior for a polite society. I have lived and dwelt in other cultures than my own, both in terms of religion and race. My wife is black and most of our collected extended family is black while I am white. I dealt with it. Not dealt with it like it was some major incursion. Dealt with it like it was reality.
You next point seems to be:
“This is not a theocracy. It is a secular society”
It is a secular Government. Society is mixed. Since NO ONE is talking about focing anyone to believe or celebrate anything they don’t want to, I have no clue what you are talking about.
Lastly you write:
If you are in the majority, don’t be an asshole about it. It is just that simple.
Which was the entire point of the first part of the Greeting message – the one that you completely ignored. In the second part I am saying: Just because you are in the minority doesnt give you the right to be an asshole either.
Again, we are talking about someone wishing you what amounts to “Good Day”. You can accept it. You can politely correct them about your own beliefs, or you can be a raging ass.
This is not a theocracy. It is a secular society
“Again, we are talking about someone wishing you what amounts to “Good Day”.”
This is what you are not getting. If there is no difference between “Merry Christmas” and “Good Day,” then no one would be saying “Merry Christmas” at all. But there IS a difference, and that is why people who are Christians and who worship Christ as a god as part of their religion wish everyone, regardless, “Merry Christmas” as a way to honor their god, not as an equivalent to “Good Day.”
This is not about me having a hissy fit. It is about you deciding how the rest of us should respond to being assumed Christian, about how we should “deal with it.” That is not for you to decide.
First of all you are factually wrong here:
“people who are Christians and who worship Christ as a god as part of their religion wish everyone, regardless, “Merry Christmas” as a way to honor their god”
The VAST majority of Christians (again we are talking 93% of the US) wish people a holiday greeting that they think is in accordance with the religion that they are OR play it safe and wish Happy Holidays. You seem to treat the actions of a very few bigoted people as the one and only view. It is certainly not my view, and not the view I expressed in the piece. In fact you can CLEARLY know that if you read the piece since a large part of it was aimed at Christians who get their knickers in a bunch about NOT being wished merry Christmas.
Being a deliberate dick is not what MOST Christians do, and it is not Christian behavior at all.
Myself, I prefer happy holidays unless I know the person celebrates Christmas. However to hold back a “Merry Christmas” for fear that someone may celebrate something different when you think they celebrate Christmas is unreasonable.
You are also wrong about it being for me to decide. I can decide how I think anyone should do anything, than write about it. It’s called EDITORIAL WRITING. In this case a persuasion piece to both sides of and issue to ask people to try and exercise a little mindfulness about the issue. I get to tell people to “deal with it”, because it is an article in a blog. Its not a law. Its an opinion piece. You want to argue against what I am saying, than fine, but don’t tell me I do not have the right to say it. That really is for you not to decide.
Jason, I think it’s pretty interesting that you have a drift towards Christianity these days. I was raised a Roman Catholic, went to a traditional parochial school (they introduced us to Hebrew, Latin, and Greek in second grade), and remember pre-Vatican II Latin Mass from childhood. In my Catholicity, I am very medieval. Being American Indian, I also was raised that way too, with the Creator, and nature spirits, the Thunder, etc., tobacco and sweatlodge. I began to be interested in European paganism when I started learning about the visual culture of the European cathedrals, about how the pagan deities and sites were “Catholicized”, as well as the holidays like Yule and Samhain. That’s how I became interested in Norse and Celtic ways, and about the world of Agrippa and transition from paganism to Christianity during Rome’s hegemony. To me, there are many gods, which I respect and give gifts when needed or asked, and contrary to some, I do not think they are all demons or figments. In our Native ways, there is the Creator, Earthmaker, but there are many Helpers too, both benevolent and malevolent. I will look forward to reading more about your journey.
Actually, 75% of people in the US identify as Christian:
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/living/us.religion.less.christian_1_american-religious-identification-survey-christian-nation-evangelical?_s=PM:LIVING
You apparently want to believe that basically everyone in the US is a Christian and that there is no difference between me or any other non-Christian living here than you visiting Nepal. But there is no comparison. For one thing, I am not a tourist here. I was born here and am a citizen and intend to stay here until I die. You were a visitor in Nepal, which is a traditional society. In contrast, the US is a modern society. That means that typically people are not legally bound by their gender, race, caste, class, or religion to remain in the position in society into which they were born. Here, people are legally able to move around in the social hierarchy, although we all know there are other forces at play. Still, there is no “top dog” group, at least, not legally. That is why majority rule is deceptive here, because although majority rules in some political structures, in reality, the rights and value of minorities are supposed to be recognized here. The US is further set up to be pluralistic-everyone’s difference is recognized as something positive instead of something that should be squashed. Telling someone who does not like being greeted with a phrase that assumes we are all of the same religion to DEAL WITH IT is anti-pluralistic. It is of a piece with the whole War on Christmas whining. Yes, yes, yes, I know all about how in your post you criticized folks who believe in the War on Christmas stuff. I have focused on one single line of your post that you felt was important enough to put in all caps. That does not mean I did not read the rest of it. I did. I will say as an aside that I see no contradiction between being a Christian and being a sorcerer. If it was good enough for Catholic priests in the Middle Ages, who wrote and popularized many grimoires, it is good enough for regular Christians now. I do not see that you have anything to apologize for on that score to anyone.
Sure, you have a right to say anything. But when what you say is uninformed and presumptuous, you can expect a reaction along the lines of “you don’t have a right to speak on a matter about which you know nothing.” How it feels to be constantly greeted with “happy birthday to my god” in a land that is your own land and that is supposed to be pluralistic is not something you know about. Your command that we DEAL WITH IT is uninformed and presumptuous. I would like to think that you realize that and it makes you feel uncomfortable to have said what you did but that for some reason you cannot bring yourself to apologize. But if it does not, hey, as you have said, a blog is like a bar, where someone can just shoot his mouth off without responsibility.
This is a better reference about the percentage of Christians and all religions, actually, in the US. It’s the survey that the CNN article is based on:
http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS/reports/ARIS_Report_2008.pdf
The fastest growing religion is none.
First of all thanks for the survey. That is actually very useful for something else that I am working on. My 93% was people who answered that they celebrate Christmas in a pole that I can’t look up right now.
I know plenty about being discriminated against in this country. My wife is black and we have been denied apartments, not served in restaurants, and been treated like criminals from the outset based solely on her skin color, despite the fact that she is more educated and well put together than I am on ANY day. The idea that someone mistaking you for a Christian and wishing you a Merry Christmas is in any comparable is just poppycock.
If you wanted an apology for language that we perhaps a bit too forceful, than you should not have started your posts with wide pot shots about how Triumphantalism is fundamental to Christianity and the near constant accusation that all Christians greet everyone with Merry Christmas. Start off polite and get polite response.
There is NO war on Christmas as I keep saying. Despite aknowleging that I write against it, you keep accusing me of it anyway, with absolutely no reasoning whatsoever.
It is NOT being anti-pluralistic to suggest that being accidentally wished Merry Christmas by someone who doesn’t know better is something that you should learn to live with in a Society where the holiday is celebrated in the numbers that it is. Pluralism, taken to the level that you are describing will leave no trace of ANY culture other than a bland homogeneous soup that has no real flavor of meaning.
Pluralism is more than just about declaring everything the same or equal, and it certainly is not about shying away from the expression of culture for the fear that that there is a miniscule chance you might ruffle someones feathers with words that are meant to cause joy. The LARGEST part of pluralism is about learning to live and even enjoy the presence of other cultures that you are not a part of, including sometimes the majority.
I didn’t compare being constantly wished “Merry christmas” to being discriminated against. I compared it to being black and being confronted constantly with an excess of white images in our culture.
It’s “triumphalism,” a category worth getting familiar with, especially for Christians (or white people or straight people or whatever), because when you have power, triumphalism can be dangerous:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumphalism
That’s it for me.
I know the word Harold. I shot it off in a hurry. However, in no sense do I hold Christianity to be better than all others and to be held superior to all others. In no sense is me suggesting people learn to cope politely, or as I said “deal”, with living in nation where a large amount of people celebrate Christmas in any way equal to the feeling that Christianity should be held supreme.
Indeed my own feelings on American government is that religion has WAY too much influence, and presence.
Allow me a comment.
I am not a citizen of the US, nor do I live there, and I am a Pagan.
I have friends that are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Pagan and Atheists and when they come to my house they know that what I put on the table is something they can eat. For Muslims Halal food, for Jews, Kosher food (and they bring their small electric oven to make sure that food is not made on my oven), and for everybody else whatever their religion or health allows them to eat (no candies for diabetics).
I celebrate the Solstice. But in December when I go shopping I often say Merry Christmas to most people, and Happy Holidays when there’s a good probability that those people have another religion than Christianity (like people working at Indian and African Restaurants, Chinese and Pakistani stores). It works and I have never offended anyone doing this.
In the end it is just a matter of respect.
Hooray Hanshishiro! Exactly right!